Manga and dialects (non-standard Japanese)
January 9th, 2009This was confirmed by some Wikipedia articles. Luckily, the article said it was one particular dialect - Kansai-ben (which may include some other subdialects).
Since Kansai-ben is the most widely known nonstandard dialect of Japanese, it has become a favorite with Japanese authors, manga and anime artists, and the like, as the choice for representing a somewhat "different" character from the norm. The use of Kansai-ben is closely associated with manzai and comedy in general throughout most of non-Kansai Japan. This is due both to the prevalence of comedians from Osaka in Japanese media as compared to people from other cities and regions (which is in turn due at least in part to the Yoshimoto Kogyo agency, based in Osaka), and to the willingness of Osaka comedians to use their own dialect while on stage. Because of this association, speakers of Kansai-ben are often viewed as being more humorous or wittier than the average Tokyo-jin. Tokyo people even occasionally imitate Kansai-ben to provoke laughter or inject humor into a situation.
My questions are:
Is it true that mangas are normally written in Kansai-ben, the most common non-standard Japanese? If that's the case, you only to understand one variety of non-standard Japanese, is that right?
Are there any online resources to give readers a head-start in coping with this variety? I understand the main difference is seldom different words but endings, particles, abbreviations, etc., which are common for colloquial Japanese.
Someone told me that many dialectal forms have become part of standard Japanese. I'd like to know what is still "dialect" and what is "norm".
Depending on the replies, I may add some examples. At the moment, I am trying to read "Nana" with my daughter. So it would be great to use this manga as a reference point.
どうも :)
ǂ :)
When it all starts to look delightfully new and slightly bizarre -- that's when you know what you've entered is a non-intelligible variety of Japanese.
Here's a sample :
W @@@@@@@@@ف@@@@@@@@L
>
> ꂢH @ȂځH ȂځH@
@@@@
>
>
> Ȃ@@@Ȃ@@@@ Ȃ
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ij
>
> @@@@@ā@@@
> Ă@@@@@ւH@@@@@ H
> 炦܂H
LفF@u͐Vl邯AXg ňꏏɐH
BႯqBy݂ɂƂBv
More colloquial form of Ȃ.
Nana takes place in Tokyo, right? (Sorry if I'm wrong.)
So most people will probably speak slangy hyojungo.
Depending on the replies, I may add some examples. At the moment, I am trying to read "Nana" with my daughter. So it would be great to use this manga as a reference point.
Examples please. :) If the premise if your question is whether what you are reading are slang/colloquialisms of the uniformally spoken hyoujungo or truly another dialect (which I doubt on the fact it would have extremely limited readership) the only way we're going to possibly tell for certain is through looking at a selection of the material.
Here's another one, confusing.
どーせならたんまりもらっときゃよかったのにやり逃げされて
Is どーせ same as dooshite?
たんまり = amari, anmari?
もらっときゃ stands for moratte ...?
Finally, what is やり逃げされて? It has something to do with run away but why passive and what does やり add?
Sorry for too many questions.
basically, the dialects spoken will depend greatly on the characters and the author. If you must learn a single dialect of Japanese other than Hyoujungo, it depends on what you want to do with your language skills. Kansai-ben is used a lot in entertainment, so it's definitely the most common form of Japanese other than Hyoujungo, and useful if understanding comedic variety shows is a priority.
Frankly, I don't read manga or watch anime (I have in the past, but I don't care to anymore) so I can't tell you what is common. I'm afraid I don't know of many resources for learning other dialects, but my recommendation is to get a good foundation in standard Japanese and you'll start picking things up as you go.
I found an excellent resource on reading Nana manga: :cool:
http://lunar.littlestar.jp/stardust/english/NANA/NANA-01.html (http://lunar.littlestar.jp/stardust/english/NANA/NANA-01.html)
Most of my questions may be answered.
I think I am beginning to distinguish a slangy standard Japanese and dialects, just proving to myself that my colloquial Japanese leaves much to be desired but I am having fun!
What's the connotation of ど田舎? What's the ど prefix?
ど田舎でも都会でもない
Still, some head-starters are required, it's hard to move even from advanced Japanese textbooks into colloquial Japanese mixed with dialects. Words like "sugee" for "sugoi" or "tanmari" for "amari" don't appear in dictionaries.
EDIT:
Elizabeth, we posted at the same time. :)
I will provide some more examples. The first example was with the "do-" prefix - (do-inaka) - not part of the standard Japanese.
Not true at all. Ǔc is a colloquial way of saying "extreme boonies." The is emphatic, and is very often written in J^Ji instead of Ђ炪.
Here's another one, confusing.
ǁ[Ȃ炽܂Ƃ悩̂ɂ蓦
Is ǁ[ same as dooshite?
܂ = amari, anmari?
Ƃ stands for moratte ...?
Finally, what is 蓦? It has something to do with run away but why passive and what does add?
Sorry fro too many questions.
ǁ[ǂ: anyway, anyhow
܂F a lot
You can check those words with pY
http://www.alc.co.jp/
It usually gives a lot of examples of usage, so that you can check the connotation/nuance.
Ƃ၁Ă
蓦 is passive of 蓦
蓦@@noun form of { (do and get away)
generally means "do" and do what depends on the context.
Adding to NattyBumpo, it's not dialect either.
I'm 100% Kanto-jin and have used it all my life.
ほったらかされてスクスクと育ち
regarding the use of hyoujungo, it is true that newscasters need to be trained to speak in the "accentless" form of Japanese, much like national anchors here in the states. As I understand, it includes learning to slightly raise the intonation at the end of sentences to prevent syllables from dropping off and maintain a clear, "flat" tone.
Dialects are interesting, as there can be variations even over short differences. I can't remember the precise location, but when I studied Japanese phonology, the origin of Hyoujungo itself was pinpointed to a very specific part of Tokyo. Within the larger families of regional dialects (kanto, kansai, touhoku, etc), there are many variations thereof, down to individual cities and even further divisions. As you said, it's very seldom that you see anyone use proper hyoujungo (outside of television and formal communications, or Japanese learning materials), because most people use common language (共通語) in their daily lives. It is in the common language that dialectal quirks become apparent.
At times I have a problem telling them apart if it's colloquial but I will do more work.
Although, I am far from fluent in standard Japanese, I have a good grounding in standard grammar and have about intermediate level in Japanese.
I understand normal Japanese sentences - both polite and colloquial as described in a variety of textbooks and grammar books but I always gets stuck easily in some manga and usually not on words but on particles and endings. Note that I know most standard particles and endings, it's the dialectal forms that confuse me.
If you must learn a single dialect of Japanese other than Hyoujungo, it depends on what you want to do with your language skills. Kansai-ben is used a lot in entertainment, so it's definitely the most common form of Japanese other than Hyoujungo, and useful if understanding comedic variety shows is a priority.
If Kansai-ben is the common one, then perhaps, I'll have a go and find more about the differences between the standard and this dialect. I want to be able not just to read newspaper articles but to read some entertainment literature. Sometimes I get impression that nobody uses 標準語 :)
Here's a quote from another discussion:
The only people who speak hyoujungo are supposed to be news reporters or other official/public working people. They usually have to go to school to get taught how to use "proper japanese".
Just ordered it a while ago, so I don't know whether its good or not. But definitely its a potential solution.
Certainly it won't tell one much about slang... but I suppose if you know slang you won't mistake it for a dialect.
Whatever, give it a shot if it caught your interest.
I can understand it but is じゃねぇ colloquial or dialectal?
ق炩ăXNXNƈ炿
But there's no dialect in this... it's standard Japanese, just colloquial.
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